Do you think it's too much of a coincidence that Hans hasn't been cast for OUaT? I'm hoping this means, if the fangirls get their Prince Killy this also means we get to see more of that douchebaggery Hook is known for, not Savior leg-humping.
I’m not really paying attention to spoilers since I don’t watch the show anymore.
If Hans hasn’t been cast, it’s probably because their Frozen material will take place after the events of the movie, and the flashbacks will be to before the events of the movie, so Hans would be irrelevant.
Oh, I would just /love/ a list of all the ships that get in the way of your OTPs that you apparently don't care about.
Okay, since you’re just dying to know (and, judging by the tone, clearly assuming I’ll be unable to do so), here you go.
Organized by OTP
I've had to stop talking about CS, and OUAT even, on my tumblr because I had a bunch of CS fans following me, stalking my blog, sending me anon hate, and making fun of me behind me back (by taking everything I said completely out of context, like they do with everything). The thing is though, these people were following me, I could clearly see that theirs was a CS blog. Did they think I wouldn't know who it was that was doing it? Are they really that stupid?
You just have to ignore it. Similar things happened to me in the past with CSers. Oftentimes I would find after I posted something about CS, I would get a new follower who was a CSer. Just a note, I do have CSers who follow me, who I follow, who are lovely people. And they follow me/I follow them because we share many other interests and fandoms. The people to whom I am referring are CSers who started following me immediately after I posted something anti CS and who pretty clearly, judging from their blog, share none of my interests/ships/or fandoms.
And then, not long after, I’d get hate in my inbox. And that would continue any time I posted something about CS.
So, judging by this, and in concurrence with the things they say and they way they behave, I would have to say that yes, some of them really are that stupid. Like you, I always had a pretty good idea of who the hate was from, as I knew which followers were the CSers, and I could often match the writing from a piece of anon hate to the writing on a specific blog.
But really, you just have to let it go. Just ignore it. I stopped paying attention to my follower count on my primary blog altogether for the most part, and really, I just kind of started sticking to my little corner of Tumblr, only really paying attention to the people I follow, my friends, specifics tags, things like that. I just don’t really have time for ridiculous people. Keeping it to my little corner of tumblr means that I know when we have discussions things will remain respectful, even when we disagree. I just decided I was done with people who are either unable or unwilling to partake in respectful discussion.
I even considered turning off anon in my ask, but I didn’t want to do that as it would keep people, like you and the last anon, from being able to feel that my blog is a safe place for them. It would also keep my friends from elsewhere on the web who don’t have tumblr accounts from messaging me, which would especially be a problem now as the Rotten Tomatoes forums have been shut down. So I accept that with having anon on, I’m going to get some anon hate. Sometimes I just delete it. But sometimes I reply to hate with respectful arguments and analysis. Because nothing makes people like that look more petty, stupid, and ridiculous than replying to them with respect and reason.
The important thing is to never let you feel bad, no matter what they say. You’re not the one with a problem. The people with a problem are the ones who think that sending anonymous hate to someone gives them the higher ground. The people with a problem are the ones following a blog only to see things that they know they’re going to disagree with.
Just ignore it, remain reasonable and respectful, and just be the awesome person you are. It’s not your problem that others can’t handle people disagreeing with them. It’s not your problem that others are incapable of engaging in actual respectful and intellectual discussion
Captain Swan is so unpleasant to my eyes I actually stopped watching my favourite show. Colin + Jennifer = negative chemistry. I'm sorry I just really needed to say this!
I totally understand. It wasn’t the only reason I stopped watching, as the entire show just became so poorly written. CS was a HUGE symptom of that though.
I would have been okay with CS if it wasn’t framed as being romantic. If it was a dark ship, or if there was actual development with Hook accepting responsibility for, feeling bad about, and apologizing for all the horrible things he did. If it wasn’t based on lies, if it wasn’t based on the idea that a ‘no’ is irrelevant. If it didn’t promote rape culture. I would have been fine with it.
I doubt I ever would have shipped it though, because I agree with you. The actors just have absolutely no chemistry whatsoever. So if it wasn’t a problematic, rape culture promoting mess I would be okay with it, but I wouldn’t ship it. It would just be one of the dozens and dozens and dozens of ships I don’t like but don’t care about in any way.
(So no, CSers who can’t fathom or handle the idea of someone disagreeing with them, who like to plug their ears, shut their eyes and stomp their feet at the fact that their ship is rape culture, it’s not about “not getting my way”. It’s not about SF not being endgame. If that was the case I would be calling dozens of ships rape culture, or problematic. But I don’t. The vast majority of ships I don’t like or that are “in the way” of my OTP I just don’t care about. I ignore them. I only say that a ship endorses rape culture when it actually endorses rape culture. I only say a ship is unhealthy and problematic when it’s actually unhealthy and problematic. I only have serious problems with ship when they are unhealthy, problematic, and/or promote rape culture, but are framed as romantic and positive.
CSers need to stop and take a few second and actually think before you make the accusation of “you just didn’t get your way” or “you’re mad because your ships isn’t endgame’. I have a lot of ships. A lot.I’ve been shipping for over 15 years. For your hypothesis to be correct, I would have to be making these accusations towards at least 50 ships. But for the most part, I just don’t care about those ships. They exist. I’m fine with them. I only give a damn when they promote unhealthy, dangerous ideas.)
I'd love to see a meta about the themes of Human Target.
Themes on Human Target are a little trickier with Human Target because of the retooling between season one and season two. There are themes that existed in season one that didn’t really carry over, or at least didn’t carry over with the same prominence, to season two.
The one theme that does run throughout both seasons is the idea of found family. With the exception of Guerrero, we know that each of the characters has some sort of lacking or loss when it comes to family. (And I think the only reason we don’t know anything in that regard for Guerrero is because they were canceled and just didn’t have a chance to get to it. The writers said that had season three happened, we would have met his ex-wife.)
Chance was clearly an orphan before being taken in by the Old Man, and he created a found family with him and Baptiste. So Chance has lost two families in different ways. We don’t know how he lost his natural family, if his parents died or if they just gave him up, but that is a loss. And then he lost his family with the Old Man and Baptiste because of a change in values. He willingly left, but it’s still a loss. Losing the comfort and familiarity of a family is scary, even if it was by choice.
Winston was once married, but he allowed his single minded pursuit of justice become more important than his marriage and he lost his wife, his family.
Ames, like Chance, was an orphan. Also like Chance, we don’t know what happened to her natural family. The closest thing she had to family was her foster brother. who she then lost for four years when he went to prison. Really, though, outside of her brother, Ames really didn’t have much grasp on the concept of family, of what it was, until joining the group.
Ilsa entered the show as someone who had recently lost her husband, and based on what we know of her past it’s possible she also lost her parents at some point.
All of these people, who had either lost their families of didn’t even understand what family was, came together to create their own family, and sometimes it even explores what they’re willing to do to keep that family together.
Redemption is the other core theme, though it’s much stronger in season one than season 2. Obviously, Chance is trying in some way to make up for the things he’s done, the lives he took. It’s much less present for Chance in season 2, though it does stay present both for Chance and even a little bit for Ames.
Another theme that runs throughout both season is loss, specifically dealing with loss. In S1 it was Chance dealing with the loss of Katherine, how that loss was the final push that led him toward the side of ‘right’, toward the idea that nobody deserves to die, of protecting people the way he failed to protect Katherine.
In S2 it’s Ilsa dealing with the loss of Marshall. Part of that is very similar to chance in that she joins the group so that she can, in some way, take part in saving and protecting people, because nobody saved or protected Marshall.
The past is a HUGE theme in season 1, as so much of the continuing story is about Chance’s past catching up with him. It’s addressed in several different episodes. They make reference to the past specifically in regards to Katherine and the Old Man, but also in more subtle ways, like in Salvage and Reclamation, that don’t specifically tie to Katherine and the Old Man. Rather, they fill in detail about the kind of things Chance did before his change of values, what his life looked like. That theme came to head in the season finale (“Christopher Chance”) in which the story was told almost entirely in flashback.
I think the way the theme of the past was handled in season one was really impressive. Human Target is usually looked at as a dumb, but fun action series and it doesn’t get the credit it deserves for its really incredible central characters, the vibrant and interesting guest characters, its overall portrayal of women, and some really stellar plotting and exploration of themes. The way we slowly learned more and more about Chance’s past, leading to the flashback episode was really well done. Perfectly paced, subtle where it needed to be.
There are also recurring themes, that don’t really run through the entire show or through whole seasons, but pop up from time to time in individual episodes (this was most frequent in season 2). Trust (Taking Ames, The Wife’s Tale, Run). Vengeance (Baptiste, Cool Hand Guerrero), morals/ethics (Salvage and Reclamation, Tanarak), the power of love (Victoria, Kill Bob, Sanctuary), personal identity (Sanctuary, Rewind, Dead Head).
One of the things I also really love is the way the show explores the continuing themes not just through the main characters, but also through the guest characters/clients. Family is explored in Embassy Row, Run, Corner Man, Victoria, The Wife’s Tale, The Other Side of the Mall, Imbroglio, and Kill Bob. Loss is explored in The Wife’s Tale, Embassy Row, and Cool Hand Guerrero. Redemption is explored in Rewind, Sanctuary, Run, Tanarak and Dead Head. The past is explored in the Pilot, Embassy Row, Sanctuary, Run, Corner Man, Tanarak, The Wife’s Tale, The Return of Baptiste, and Dead Head.
Thematically, Human Target is a lot more interesting than people give it credit for.
how is stalia problematic like cs? (sorry i havent seen s4 yet but please tell me)
The comparison was that they’re both problematic ships, not that they’re problematic in the same ways.
CS is problematic because it endorses the idea that a ‘no’ is only a ‘no’ until a man can change it into a yes. That a man gets to decide when and how a woman deals with her issues because those issues get in the way of what he wants. That a woman’s needs and desires are secondary to a man’s. It promotes the idea that a man deserves a reward in the form of a woman’s body and affections for being a decent person. It’s frames stalking as being romantic. It operates on the idea that a woman is responsible for a man’s good behavior, that as long as he’s being nice it’s okay to ignore all the horrible thing he’s done. It treats Emma like an object rather than a person. It’s built on lies of both omission and misinformation.
Stalia is problematic but in different ways. The very concept of the relationship is troubling. They became romantic in Echo House. The were both there because they were suffering from severe psychological and emotional distress. Stiles was possessed by an evil spirit, and Malia was only weeks removed from having spent most of her formative years living as a coyote after she murdered he family. She punches him in the face, displaying an inability to control her feelings and a tendency toward violence, and then they had sex in the basement. That in and of itself is so unhealthy and gross that I can’t believe Jeff Davis even wrote it.
And it’s only continued as such. Neither of them are in a place where they should be in a romantic or physical relationship, especially Malia. Now she’s only a few months removed from having spent her major formative years living like a wild animal. The last time she lived as a human she was a child, and because of that she has an enormous lack of understanding when it comes to interpersonal relationships, and someone like that should not be pursuing a romantic relationship.
There’s a huge imbalance of power emotionally in Stiles’ favor. He has to make excuses for her bad behavior and talk about how she’s learning. He’s training her like she’s a pet. It wouldn’t be so bad if they were friends and he was helping her. But he has this enormous power over her because he’s the one teaching her how she’s supposed to be, how she’s supposed to act, how she’s supposed to behave. Even if he doesn’t abuse that power, it’s still an incredibly disturbing element of a romantic and sexual relationship.
On the other end of the spectrum, there’s a huge imbalance of power physically in Malia’s favor. There are canon instances of their relationship being physically abusive. The punch in Eichen House and whatever she does to Stiles’ back that left Scott somewhat horrified. Malia, understandably, doesn’t respect boundaries, which leads to her sneaking into his bedroom at night, which is troubling.
And the way the Stalia fandom reacts to that is so messed up. If the genders were reversed, people would be horrified at the way this relationship was being portrayed. But since it’s a cute girl doing the abusing and ignoring boundaries, it’s cute and funny. That’s so wrong, and it perpetuates the idea that a woman can’t be the abusive party in a relationship, that men can’t be abused. And that is WRONG.
It is similar to CS in one way, though, in that it places the responsibility of Malia’s behavior on Stiles, and that kind of relationship is never okay. It’s never okay to make another person responsible for someones behavior, for someone’s “redemption”, or someone’s ability to remain in control (which is why I’ve always had a little bit of problem with the whole ‘anchor’ thing in TW). No matter how damaged a person is, the responsibility of their behavior should never be placed on someone else, especially on a person with whom they’re romantically involved. That’s just not fair.
And really, Stiles shouldn’t be in a relationship either. He’s only months removed from being possessed by an evil spirit that murdered people and wrought havoc on his friends’ lives, and led to the death of Alison. And we know that he remembers all of it. He should not be in a place where a romantic relationship is a good idea, especially not one where he’s responsible for someone else’s behavior.
Much like with CS, there is nothing healthy about Stalia. There is nothing about this relationship that isn’t troubling at best, incredibly problematic and unhealthy at worst. If it wasn’t framed as being romantic and cute, it wouldn’t be such a problem. But it’s portraying this kind of relationship as something positive.
Community - 3x04 - Remedial Chaos Theory
Put a ship in my ask and I’ll write a haiku about them!
I know I just replied to a post saying this exact thing, but I’m saying it again in brand spanking new post in the anti stalia tag so that everyone sees it.
I know we’re all angry about Stalia. I know we’re all disappointed in the writing. I know we’re all disturbed by the way this problematic relationship is being framed as romantic and cute.
And those of you attending SDCC should definitely make your displeasure known. You should definitely ask questions during the panel about the writing and the problematic elements of the relationships.
But please, please, please be respectful about it. There is no excuse to be anything other than respectful and polite. The cast are just doing their jobs. They don’t write the show. The perform what they’re given and then they do PR promoting their characters because it’s their job. Even Jeff Davis deserves respect and courtesy when you’re asking him questions.
Aggressive behavior and hostility will do no good. It will not get you the answers you want. All it will do is make the cast and Jeff Davis wary of people who don’t like Stalia. It will lead to is not being taken seriously. It will lead to Jeff Davis seeing us as hostile and whiny because we’re not getting our way.
It is essential that you are polite and respectful. I implore you.